List entry formatting does not go back to regular

[mcuser]

Hello,
I just discovered MC, and I found several traits of it very appealing, even though my very first action was to hide the multi-buttons, and the fact that now it's free, just adds to my very positive impression overall, even though I think it should go "paid" again, since only this ensures active development. Some not-so-good file managers are sold at 40 dollars, which certainly is not necessary, but 20 dollars for a decent file manager should be considered perfectly acceptable to everybody. This being said:

I have got two questions, one minor and one major. My much less important question being, is it possible to change the fonts (regular font, not bolding, color, etc.) for the lists in the list windows? If so, how to do that? I tried really hard to find such a setting, but in vain.

Now my question which is much more important to me: I always display system and "hidden" files/folders, and I use the system/hidden attributes for displaying any particular files/folders in bold (hidden), and in bold and colored colored (system).

Now this works fine, but when then, afterwards, I de-"system" or de-hide such a file or folder, the list display does not revert to regular (from bolded or from bolded-and-colored), but stays bolded or bolded-and-colored, not indefinitely, but for a long time, so these display toggles do not work correctly?

The same is true if I display another folder in that same list pane, then go back to the previous folder there: The bolding or bolding-and-coloring will have not disappeared. Also, my switching the setting Configuration-Explorer panel settings-Display to "Tweaking (Advanced, changing is not recommended) Always rescan folders (...)" to YES (= "checked") does NOT change anything to the above-described problem.

I tried with custom coloring (the above settings and tab "Colors there", then "Rule based coloring of files and folders"), and also with the default state (Windows coloring/bolding), and this didn't make any difference.

Is this a bug, and if so, do we have to live with that, or did I overlook some setting I should switch on or off, in order to make file/folder name display revert immediately to default state (black and regular, instead of bolded and/or colored), whenever the system and/or "hidden" attributes are reverted to "no"?

Thank you very much for your interest in this matter!

[Mathias (Author)]

Filelist fonts are change in Explorer Panel settings


Menu > Configuration > Explorer Panel > Display (Tab)
Then scroll down to the "Fonts" section and there are 4 fonts that you change.

There are two settings for Colors/Font style for hidden/ attribute
If you do not use Rules Based FileColoring you have some auto coloring for file with System/Hidden under the Colors tab in Explorer Panel settings.

If you use Rules Based font colors they are controlled by clicking on the color wheel on the toolbar and editing rules. and you also got some other options there to enable/disabled them . refresh coloring and to select different color profiles.

The Rule based coloring are a processs that are slow. So because of performance issue the RuleBased color an item should have is cached.
And if an item need recoloring it will sometimes not happen immediately. You can force a refresh with the command in the menu. (You can create a command and assign hotkey for it if you want that)

[mcuser]

"Then scroll down to the "Fonts" section and there are 4 fonts that you change."
My fault, excuse my blindness. I had looked into that again and again, without detecting it. Now I found it, thank you very much!

Focus to MC command line by caret key (^): works! Thank you! Also by shortkey: "MC Commander (Base)" then "Change input focus to the CommandLine field": Had search for it, and overlooked it. Again my fault, sorry!

MC Command line vs. ^f/Filter field: No problem, I've got it now, just predetermined filters from the MC command line, filters on the fly just from the filter field. Command line would have been better since there you can see a longer line, whilst filter fields are very short, but no problem, just wanted to be sure it's not possible.

"Refresh", by F5, as in your web browser. I also found the Refresh command now at the bottom of the command list which is there to assign shortkeys. (Hadn't thought seriously of this because of F5 traditionally being for "Copy" in file managers, but had even tried it on my own, with no effect.)

In fact, F5 / Refresh has NO effect, not then, not now: The formatting of files is NOT reverted to "none" = regular font! And yes, there is something particular, all these files are on an external hdd, but positive formatting ("system", "hidden") is displayed at once, correctly, according to my settings (bold, color), whilst negative formatting (NO system/hidden anymore) is NOT displayed correctly, not even after F5, and not even after I go to another folder, or even to another drive, and then back to the current one: The entry remains bolded/colored.

Also, very strange: Now, when I change attributes of entries in my c: folder, not even the positive formatting is displayed, i.e. by making a file "hidden" or "system" there, it does NOT display in bold or color.

So is there also a folder-specific behavior there? At the same time, files on my external hdd drive GET the formatting, but will not lose it, as described, except by closing MC and then reopening again.

In c:\, a file "hidden" remains regular (!), the same file then checked in another file manager is blue (which is the correct formatting/coloring for "hidden" files there), and when I un-hide the file again, no change in MC (since it had remained regular before anyway), and it gets regular in the other file manager (= back from blue there).

So I tried the same in c:\Programs\SomeProgram, and there, "system"izing a file shows it in red-bold, "hiding" shows it in bold (= both correct according to my settings), whilst de-hiding, de-"systemizing" leaves it in bold or bold-red, instead of the entry reverting back to regular (= it has nothing to do with external hdd vs. internal c:\ hdd); here (in c:\Programs\...) again, formatting and de-formatting of entries is correctly displayed in other file managers, but de-formatting is not correct in MC.

All this in XP, but from the correct display in other file managers, it's evident it has nothing to do with possible incorrect attribute changes or XP-in-itself (since formatting would be faulty over there, too, if attribute changes had not been made correctly), but perhaps the fault lies in the interaction between MC and XP (and will not occur in Win7/8)?

And why not even positive changes in c:\ (= in its source folder)?

Also, as said, F5/Refresh does not help in any way about all this, neither does "Always rescan folders."="on".

I hope very much you could find a hint which settings I could try in order to get rid of this, but as said, this behavior of not reverting back to regular formatting does also occur with default settings (vs. my "Rule based coloring").

EDIT: I change attributes in MC, by a right-click tool (Attribute Changer 7), then these changes are correctly displayed in other file managers, but not in MC (if negative, from some attribute to not-that-attribute) if back to regular. I also tried with "Properties", but that dialog does not offer hidden or system to change. Anyway, I'm positive those attribute changes are correctly made, since visible in other file managers (or when I reopen the Attribute Changer dialog again).

All this in "list" mode, and no difference between left/right pane. (But as said, different behavior in c: source folder.)

I even had reinstalled MC because of this, but I'm ready to reinstall it again and follow your instructions if you think that could help.

[Mathias (Author)]

"Then scroll down to the "Fonts" section and there are 4 fonts that you change."
My fault, excuse my blindness. I had looked into that again and again, without detecting it. Now I found it, thank you very much!

MC Command line vs. ^f/Filter field: No problem, I've got it now, just predetermined filters from the MC command line, filters on the fly just from the filter field. Command line would have been better since there you can see a longer line, whilst filter fields are very short, but no problem, just wanted to be sure it's not possible.

Is is possible using script.. but not alone by it self.

"Refresh", by F5, as in your web browser. I also found the Refresh command now at the bottom of the command list which is there to assign shortkeys. (Hadn't thought seriously of this because of F5 traditionally being for "Copy" in file managers, but had even tried it on my own, with no effect.)

It depends on what setup you selected ExploerStyle or Commander Style..  Commander style is using F5 for copy.  With Explorer Style the mouse/keyboard is setup to work like Windows Explorer.

In fact, F5 / Refresh has NO effect, not then, not now: The formatting of files is NOT reverted to "none" = regular font! And yes, there is something particular, all these files are on an external hdd, but positive formatting ("system", "hidden") is displayed at once, correctly, according to my settings (bold, color), whilst negative formatting (NO system/hidden anymore) is NOT displayed correctly, not even after F5, and not even after I go to another folder, or even to another drive, and then back to the current one: The entry remains bolded/colored.

No a filesystem refresh will not refresh rule based file coloring. (Unless the cache is flushed) The file coloring has it own refresh as I said. You see in the ColorWheel popup.

Also, very strange: Now, when I change attributes of entries in my c: folder, not even the positive formatting is displayed, i.e. by making a file "hidden" or "system" there, it does NOT display in bold or color.

So is there also a folder-specific behavior there? At the same time, files on my external hdd drive GET the formatting, but will not lose it, as described, except by closing MC and then reopening again.

In c:\, a file "hidden" remains regular (!), the same file then checked in another file manager is blue (which is the correct formatting/coloring for "hidden" files there), and when I un-hide the file again, no change in MC (since it had remained regular before anyway), and it gets regular in the other file manager (= back from blue there).

So I tried the same in c:\Programs\SomeProgram, and there, "system"izing a file shows it in red-bold, "hiding" shows it in bold (= both correct according to my settings), whilst de-hiding, de-"systemizing" leaves it in bold or bold-red, instead of the entry reverting back to regular (= it has nothing to do with external hdd vs. internal c:\ hdd); here (in c:\Programs\...) again, formatting and de-formatting of entries is correctly displayed in other file managers, but de-formatting is not correct in MC.

I'm not sure what you are doing . But when I try it works.

Also, as said, F5/Refresh does not help in any way about all this, neither does "Always rescan folders."="on".

This have nothing to do with colors. With that option a file scan is always forced even a valid cached file items exits

EDIT: I change attributes in MC, by a right-click tool (Attribute Changer 7), then these changes are correctly displayed in other file managers, but not in MC (if negative, from some attribute to not-that-attribute) if back to regular. I also tried with "Properties", but that dialog does not offer hidden or system to change. Anyway, I'm positive those attribute changes are correctly made, since visible in other file managers (or when I reopen the Attribute Changer dialog again).

Works for me. But you can change attribute from MC too. Tools menu for changing all select or ctrl+dblclick on attribute/date column

I even had reinstalled MC because of this, but I'm ready to reinstall it again and follow your instructions if you think that could help.

No need to reinstall.. MC do not hook it self into anything in windows. Just clear the settings if you want to reset everything. ( :goconfig in command line field)

[mcuser]

SUMMARY:
There is a problem with SystemORHidden together vs. ReadOnly. Works as expected but is not that useful. (1)
There is obviously no automatic rule coloring updating after attributes changes, a fresh install proves that. (2)
The "color ball" command works fine, i.e. updates it all. (3)
But I don't like the color ball, so I wrote the necessary (?) 1-line scriptlet in order to trigger that command from a shortcut. (4)

1)

I just installed MC on a second pc (also XP, don't have any newer os).
MS mode vs. Norton mode: chose MS mode (as with my main pc).
Then ^b = hide button window. I know this was the big idea behind MC, originally, but my screens are just too tiny for that.

Then Configuration...Display
There: Show hidden YES, show system YES (both from default NO)

And Configuration...Colors
There: "Different color for files/folders with System/Hidden attributes YES (Auto coloring (default))
(BIG problem: there is no visual differentiation between system and hidden possible, this way; that's why I had switched to "Rule based coloring" on first pc. You have a second setting, for readonly, but that's not realistic since you then cannot change those files/folders anymore, whilst if you differentiate "system" and "hidden", you can have two different colors, AND work on those files as you otherwise would)
New start

Then, I "hide" some file, by "Properties".
And I "un-hide" it again, same way:

This works fine: "Hidden", the file is grey instead of black, and un-hidden, it's black again.
But as said, this way I only can distinguish one special file "format", not 2.
The same would apply if I switched from "Automatic" to manual color assignment ("Fixed Color"): For System/Hidden in ONE, and the second one for Readonly=unusable=cannot work on these files then.

2)

Now, "I try Rule based coloring":
I un-check "Different color...with system/hidden attributes" again, i.e. it's default setting again.
And I check ("YES") "Rule based coloring of files and folders" instead.
I "apply" and "save".
Now, "everything" gets very "colored", according to the file extensions; of course, I don't want this.

Therefore: "File Coloring Rules Editor".
There, I simply uncheck Compressed, New, Empty, Exe, Text, Pics, Music, Video, Archives, Office.

I leave "System files" checked, and I leave it even as it is (on my first pc I had changed to bold, but with white background.
I "save". Now, "System files" are red on yellow background (default); all other coloring has vanished.

Now, in c:\, I set the system attribute of some file to "on", and the color/background of the entry do NOT change = exactly the same behavior as in my first pc 1 hour ago; just the "original" system files in c:\ are red on yellow background, i.e. here in c:, not even the positive attribute change is displayed by the format.

Now, I close MC and reopen it, and NOW that file is red on yellow background (as are the other, "original" system files on c:), but now only!

Now, I "un-system" that file, and it REMAINS red on yellow background.
I close MC, reopen MC, and that file is correctly displayed in regular (black on white).

For "hidden", on my first pc, I took one of the other formats (Compressed, New, Empty, Exe, Text, Pics, Music, Video, Archives, Office) which I un-checked = disabled here, and changed its "internals", i.e attribute "H", and then display Bold, etc., but let's leave this "Hidden" format out here, for clarity.
Here, we have your ORIGINAL "system" format (as said, with its siblings all disabled), and it works as badly as on my first pc (where I may have made settings that may have done harm).

Now let's see any other, not c:\ folder, i.e. something in c:\Programs.
In some of the subfolders in there, I change some "normal" file to "system".
As explained by me for my first pc, display changes immediately: The entry is now red on yellow background.

Now, I change back from "system" to not-system, and yes: This "negative" attribute change is NOT replicated: The entry stays red on yellow background, up to the next closing down MC and reopening it: Then, it's back to regular (black on white) again.

Now, I have replicated both phenomena from my first xp pc:
- positive attribute change is displayed, but not negative attribute change
- in c: parent/source/main folder, not even the positive attribute change is displayed
"not" meaning, in both cases, "not before you close down MC and reopen it again"

As said, I freshly installed MC on my second pc (there, MC had NOT been installed before), and I did not do anything else than I listed above.

I therefore think this should be possible to replicate on any other xp pc.

3)

I also found the color ball now, in a toolbar I normally hide, and with the command "Refresh file coloring for all files and folders", and using this command WILL refresh the wrong formatting and set it right (after hours of trying it all out, I got mixed up for a brief moment, for what was "system", and what was not, sorry!).

4)

Now the original command is, MC.Explorer.RefreshColoringRules, but if I type this command into the MC command line and then press Enter, this refresh is NOT done, obviously because I don't understand how this MC command line works (since the respective ball command works fine).... or is it one of those command lines in which you cannot do much? ;-)

Thus: Configuration-User Defined Commands
There: Click on the folder symbol, for "Create new command"
Then: Command type: Multi-Script (I hope this is the right one, was not evident from looking into those; perhaps this can be done in a simpler way I didn't find)
Name: Refresh, Hotkey, Shift-Control-R, and in the field for the script lines, just the above command Mc.Explorer.RefreshColoringRules and nothing else; similar commands similarly.

After that, +^r will refresh your color codings.
EDIT:
a) You also can assign an "alias" to that "script" (but not to a single command it seems? It has to be put into such a "script" for that?), instead of assigning a shortkey to it, or additionally, and then, entering (in this example) RefreshENTERKEY will trigger the script and by that the command.
b) Those commands are case-sensitive, so if you put an Mc.Whatever into the scriptlet, instead of MC.Whatever, it will NOT work.
c) Deselecting the FileCommands toolbar (which includes the color ball here) and the Drives toolbar did not just deselect them, but made them vanish from the menu, so I had to reinstall MC to see the ball again. In other words, don't deselect these toolbars before being sure you don't need the icons there anymore.

Anyway, Thomas, thank you very, very much for your patient help!

[Mathias (Author)]

I just installed MC on a second pc (also XP, don't have any newer os).

XP.. Ohh dear..
As a side note.. MC is not tested on XP anymore. Most thing should still work on XP and program should start..

You have a second setting, for readonly, but that's not realistic since you then cannot change those files/folders anymore, whilst if you

Do not assume that just because a file has the file attribute "readonly" it is protected.
Readonly is just a attribute and program can remove it they want.. Many programs removes readonly flags if they see it.
File attribute do not a replacement for real file security permissions.

Then, I "hide" some file, by "Properties".
And I "un-hide" it again, same way:

You mean with Windows property dialog or with the property windows for attribute that MC have. ?
I guess you mean the Windows one..

Now, in c:\, I set the system attribute of some file to "on", and the color/background of the entry do NOT change = exactly the same behavior as in my first pc 1 hour ago; just the "original" system files in c:\ are red on yellow background, i.e. here in c:, not even the positive attribute change is displayed by the format.

Now, I close MC and reopen it, and NOW that file is red on yellow background (as are the other, "original" system files on c:), but now only!

As I said before.. RuleBased coloring is cached. So sometimes if file are change it will not get revalidated at once.
Thats why you can refresh the coloring.

Now, I change back from "system" to not-system, and yes: This "negative" attribute change is NOT replicated: The entry stays red on yellow background, up to the next closing down MC and reopening it: Then, it's back to regular (black on white) again.

Now, I have replicated both phenomena from my first xp pc:
- positive attribute change is displayed, but not negative attribute change
- in c: parent/source/main folder, not even the positive attribute change is displayed
"not" meaning, in both cases, "not before you close down MC and reopen it again"

negative , positive ?? you mean set and unset of attribute.
As before.  cached..  But if you enable the "attribute" column you will see if the file item actually picks up the change.

Now the original command is, MC.Explorer.RefreshColoringRules, but if I type this command into the MC command line and then press Enter, this refresh is NOT done, obviously because I don't understand how this MC command line works (since the respective ball command works fine).... or is it one of those command lines in which you cannot do much? ;-)

As I said before.. the Script command still can't be typed directly into the command line field. If you really want to type something to set them create a command and assign an alias..

Thus: Configuration-User Defined Commands
There: Click on the folder symbol, for "Create new command"
Then: Command type: Multi-Script (I hope this is the right one, was not evident from looking into those; perhaps this can be done in a simpler way I didn't find)
Name: Refresh, Hotkey, Shift-Control-R, and in the field for the script lines, just the above command Mc.Explorer.RefreshColoringRules and nothing else; similar commands similarly.

As I also written before. You should create a command of CustomCommand type. not Multi-Script. Multi-Script is the advance full script engine. if you want variables and doing multiple things.

[Mathias (Author)]

One think I wounding is why do you set/unset attributes so much.. what problem are you trying to solve. Maybe there is a better way to do that without having to change attributes of files all the time.