Copy from MC to Explorer

[Suncatcher]

Is it normal that while copy from MC to Explorer the MC window freezing and non-functional? When I copy large file it can take 10 minutes and I cannot do anything during this time.
I get this message

[Mathias (Author)]

It depends
How you do the copy (Is MC doing the copy are you making MC calling windows to do the Copy) and from where it read the data or to where it is written.

[Suncatcher]

How you do the copy (Is MC doing the copy are you making MC calling windows to do the Copy) and from where it read the data or to where it is written.

It happens only when copying from MC to Explorer, 'cause in other direction it uses internal tool.



How I copy? Simply by drag'n'drop from MC window to Explorer folder. What other details do you need?

[Mathias (Author)]

How you do the copy (Is MC doing the copy are you making MC calling windows to do the Copy) and from where it read the data or to where it is written.

It happens only when copying from MC to Explorer, 'cause in other direction it uses internal tool.



How I copy? Simply by drag'n'drop from MC window to Explorer folder. What other details do you need?

I dont know why you get the MC Copy dialog when you drag a file from MC to Explorer because the program where you drop will do the copy so you should see the Windows Copy Dialog if you drop the file in Explorer.  But if the file you are copy are located inside a virtual filesystem like a zip/rar or similar MC must first unpack the file. and this can lockup the main UI in MC until it is done with that.

You can also get a lockup in MC when dragging a file to an external program. But it depends on what that program does with the drop.
If that program do not tell MC that is done with the drop request MC must wait. But normally Explorer will not do this.
But some AV or shell extensions that are hooked into the Windows Shell can interfere and cause this to happen.

Do it works if you just copy inside MC.. drag n drop file inside MC only and not explorer
or if you use the internal copy command that if F2/F5 (depending on default setup or click the copy button on button panel or toolbar, makesure target location is the "other" panel )

[Suncatcher]

I dont know why you get the MC Copy dialog when you drag a file from MC to Explorer because the program where you drop will do the copy so you should see the Windows Copy Dialog if you drop the file in Explorer.

You misunderstood me, I stated exactly as you did:

D'n'D MC ->  Explorer = Windows Copy Dialog
D'n'D Explorer->  MC = MC Dialog

But normally Explorer will not do this.

Does it mean that MC never knows when request is completed?

[Mathias (Author)]

I dont know why you get the MC Copy dialog when you drag a file from MC to Explorer because the program where you drop will do the copy so you should see the Windows Copy Dialog if you drop the file in Explorer.

You misunderstood me, I stated exactly as you did:

D'n'D MC ->  Explorer = Windows Copy Dialog
D'n'D Explorer->  MC = MC Dialog

Ah okey  that good. So it is when you drag from MC to explorer. so then the question still is if there is something special with this copy operation.
Like virtual filesystems involved or other things. Like dropping file inside a Zip in Explorer. or if the file that was drag was located inside a zip or other special locations. Anyway Explorer keeps a hold on drop process until it is done. Often it releases when you press retry in that dialog that are shown.
But MC can't do anything until the program that have takes the drop releases it.

But normally Explorer will not do this.

Does it mean that MC never knows when request is completed?

[/quote]
Not exactly. It all depends on what the program that handles the drop does. and what kind of drop it does.
But if that program accepts the drop but then never releases it. then MC will wait, and wait.
And also some program accept only different kinds of drop actions. very very long story.. DnD is a mess

The problem is that drag and drop between program is actually a very bad way of copying files.
Because a lot of stuff can interface with it and there is less control over the copy process.
For example MC do not have any idea what happen when a drop is happening outside of MC, if the copy is inside MC you can use filters and plugins , queues and other things,

[Suncatcher]

So it is when you drag from MC to explorer. so then the question still is if there is something special with this copy operation.

Nothing special. It happens both when I copy to connected network drives and local too.

Not exactly. It all depends on what the program that handles the drop does. and what kind of drop it does.
But if that program accepts the drop but then never releases it. then MC will wait, and wait.
And also some program accept only different kinds of drop actions. very very long story.. DnD is a mess

The problem is that drag and drop between program is actually a very bad way of copying files.
Because a lot of stuff can interface with it and there is less control over the copy process.
For example MC do not have any idea what happen when a drop is happening outside of MC, if the copy is inside MC you can use filters and plugins , queues and other things,

Okay, got it. Will do this via Copy-Paste.

[Mathias (Author)]

So it is when you drag from MC to explorer. so then the question still is if there is something special with this copy operation.

Nothing special. It happens both when I copy to connected network drives and local too.

Ok so only normal locations. That is strange. But it can be AV software or similar that causing it. Something prevents the drop action from being released in explorer.

Not exactly. It all depends on what the program that handles the drop does. and what kind of drop it does.
But if that program accepts the drop but then never releases it. then MC will wait, and wait.
And also some program accept only different kinds of drop actions. very very long story.. DnD is a mess

The problem is that drag and drop between program is actually a very bad way of copying files.
Because a lot of stuff can interface with it and there is less control over the copy process.
For example MC do not have any idea what happen when a drop is happening outside of MC, if the copy is inside MC you can use filters and plugins , queues and other things,

Okay, got it. Will do this via Copy-Paste.

Actually Copy/Paste is not much better there are lots of issues with that too
But for copy to between normal drive both DnD and CopyPaste should normally work. it is in special situation where you have the issues.


But you can also just stay inside MC, and skip Windows explorer completely. The active panel is the default source and other panel is the default target
So lets say the in the right panel you browse to the location where you want to copy to.. (the target location)
and in the left panel you find the file you want to copy and select them then press F2/F5 (depending on setup or press copy toolbar icon)
then it will copy the select files and the target location will be set to the location of the "other" panel (the right one if the active focus was in the left when you started the copy)
then you just confirm and it copies..  and then you can also use special features in MC for the copy as filters and plugins to queues.
Or you can just drag and drop from one panel to the other. but then you have to reach for the mouse.

[Suncatcher]

But you can also just stay inside MC, and skip Windows explorer completely. The active panel is the default source and other panel is the default target
So lets say the in the right panel you browse to the location where you want to copy to.. (the target location)
and in the left panel you find the file you want to copy and select them then press F2/F5 (depending on setup or press copy toolbar icon)
then it will copy the select files and the target location will be set to the location of the "other" panel (the right one if the active focus was in the left when you started the copy)
then you just confirm and it copies..  and then you can also use special features in MC for the copy as filters and plugins to queues.
Or you can just drag and drop from one panel to the other. but then you have to reach for the mouse.

The reason I cannot abandon Explorer completely is the inability of MC to handle Windows system folders, or folders which are not owned by me. What I mean: when I try to access folder inside Windows or System32 or whatsoever even safer, I cannot process my action further. MC simply drops any activity into nowhere, with no interaction with user. Only through intensive brainstorm I should guess that this issue is connected with permissions which MC cannot defeat.
With Explorer I am happily able to overcome this limitation with this prompt
But this is another story which requires separate thread...

[Mathias (Author)]

MC has not issue with modifying files in the Windows System folders in general. However most of the system folders do require admin permissions.
and MC normally can start a helper process run as admin even if MC is not, and most actions can be relayed via that.
But depending on what is done, it sometimes works better if the entire MC process is run with full permissions
So either start it as admin by right clicking on shortcut, or you can start a new instance from MC from Menu > File > Multi Command (As Admin)
and you get a process that have full admin permissions

However some AV and/or SecuritySoftware sometimes prevent 3rd party tools to access/modify the system folders.

[Suncatcher]

Okay, running as Admin helped. However, it'd be wonderful if MC would trigger similar elevation prompt if it is started without Admin permissions.
Now it just drops any action without notifying user that smth went wrong.
Saying

MC normally can start a helper process

you wanted to say MC should normally start this prompt or something else? I have no idea what is helper process.

[Mathias (Author)]

Okay, running as Admin helped. However, it'd be wonderful if MC would trigger similar elevation prompt if it is started without Admin permissions.
Now it just drops any action without notifying user that smth went wrong.
Saying

MC normally can start a helper process

you wanted to say MC should normally start this prompt or something else? I have no idea what is helper process.

Normally MC does that. But It depends on what you do. And that you have not turned it off.
By default if you drag a file to system32 folder in MC and MC is running in normal session it will show an access denied error.
and there is a button saying retry as admin. and when you press that a UAC dialog is shown and when it is confirmed and a Helper process is launch that make
will relay the writing and the file is copied. The Helper process is only launches once. and for all the other files there is no dialog.

Helper processes is a program that MC starts as admin. and all the writes are relayed via that program so even if MC is run as normal user it can do admin work.
When the admin helper process is launch you have a red notice in the status bar on MC so you know it is active.

[Suncatcher]

Normally MC does that. But It depends on what you do. And that you have not turned it off.

Now when I try to open system folder in non-Admin mode, MC does nothing. No window or notification appears, I press Enter and nothing.

[Mathias (Author)]

Normally MC does that. But It depends on what you do. And that you have not turned it off.

Now when I try to open system folder in non-Admin mode, MC does nothing. No window or notification appears, I press Enter and nothing.

That is very strange..  Is your setup of windows special/different from other normal user in anyway ?

what do you do?

Browse to c:\Windows\system32  and then drag a file into that folders.. and nothing happens ?
do the fileoperation log say anything ? (Ctrl+L click on FileOperationsLog)

[Suncatcher]

Is your setup of windows special/different from other normal user in anyway ?

No.

what do you do?

No copying, I simply try to open it.

Browse to c:\Windows\system32  and then drag a file into that folders.. and nothing happens ?

If I try to d'n'd file to system folder, it prompts for permissions



But if I simply try to enter this folder it gives no reaction.

[Mathias (Author)]

what do you do?

No copying, I simply try to open it.

Open? You mean you can't event navigate to the C:\Windows\System32 folder in MC ? That is very strange.
that folder is is only write protected. all programs can read and see that folder.

Browse to c:\Windows\system32  and then drag a file into that folders.. and nothing happens ?

If I try to d'n'd file to system folder, it prompts for permissions



But if I simply try to enter this folder it gives no reaction.

Ehh ?
When you try to drag a file to system folder in MC it tries to open "Windows Device Recovery" ? something is really wrong with your machine if that program is trying to start

Either something is very messed up on your machines or I don't understand what you are doing and wants happening.

[Suncatcher]

When you try to drag a file to system folder in MC it tries to open "Windows Device Recovery" ? something is really wrong with your machine if that program is trying to start

 
 
I got this screen from the Web, don't hang on words. On my messagebox it shows "MCAdmin.exe", bla-bla-bla.
The main idea is that it doesn't showed when necessary.

[Mathias (Author)]

When you try to drag a file to system folder in MC it tries to open "Windows Device Recovery" ? something is really wrong with your machine if that program is trying to start

 
 
I got this screen from the Web, don't hang on words. On my messagebox it shows "MCAdmin.exe", bla-bla-bla.
The main idea is that it doesn't showed when necessary.

Ok if it shown mcadmin.exe that is correct.

You do not see it when entering the C:\Windows\System32 becuse you have permission to do that as a normal users.
It is when you starts to try to modify the content it starts to detect that you do not have permissions and the dialog is shown.
But that the admin process is to help when doing minor things. If you know that you need to do alot of things with admin permissions
and everything you do need to be done as admin. then you should start MC as admin.
When MC it self run as admin. then everything it does and ever program it launches will be with admin permissions.

[Suncatcher]

You do not see it when entering the C:\Windows\System32 becuse you have permission to do that as a normal users.

If I cannot enter the folder then I have not enough permissions, and I should be notified about this.

[Mathias (Author)]

If you can not enter C:\Windows\System32 folder then something is wrong because all user have read permissions for that folder.
Because all core window dll are stored in here and if you can access this folder NO program would work.
So if you cant access that folder from none admin process then you got some 3de party security software blocking it.

But if you do not have permission for another folder that is not system critical, then start MC with full permission and everything MC does will be under full permissions.

[Suncatcher]

If you can not enter C:\Windows\System32 folder then something is wrong because all user have read permissions for that folder.

Where have you took this %SystemRoot%\system32? I've not even mentioned it anywhere, and even on my screen another folder is showed. There are some folders (e.g. SoftwareDistributions) that are not accessible  by default.

So if you cant access that folder from none admin process then you got some 3de party security software blocking it.

What type of? I assume this 3rd party tool is UAC 

[Mathias (Author)]

If you can not enter C:\Windows\System32 folder then something is wrong because all user have read permissions for that folder.

Where have you took this %SystemRoot%\system32? I've not even mentioned it anywhere, and even on my screen another folder is showed. There are some folders (e.g. SoftwareDistributions) that are not accessible  by default.

Because you sad system folder,  and after I mention system32 folder you did not correct it. So I assume it was that folder. and kept referring to it without you saying it is not that folder you have issues with.

So if you cant access that folder from none admin process then you got some 3de party security software blocking it.

What type of? I assume this 3rd party tool is UAC 
[/quote]
Like AV or security software. there are Security software that blocks so program that are not white listed can access the folder.

[Suncatcher]

Like AV or security software. there are Security software that blocks so program that are not white listed can access the folder.

I don't use any AV or firewall software except those which is delivered by default (Windows Defender, UAC, Windows Firewall), and my system is a fresh install aged 4 days. I wasn't even able to bloat it in a such short time.
So I assume this is some UAC default settings.

[Mathias (Author)]

Like AV or security software. there are Security software that blocks so program that are not white listed can access the folder.

I don't use any AV or firewall software except those which is delivered by default (Windows Defender, UAC, Windows Firewall), and my system is a fresh install aged 4 days. I wasn't even able to bloat it in a such short time.
So I assume this is some UAC default settings.

No.  OR I don't really know. there been so many misunderstandings with this issues so I don't really know anymore what the issue really is

If you run MC as normal user then you can no browse into a folder you do not have access to. So you then need to start MC As Admin
If you run MC as normal user and you can enter a folder but do not have write permissions. and MC want to write to, it will do that via the Admin Helper Process that it will start. The Admin Helper Process let you do some things as admin when program is run as normal. But if you want to do everything as admin you need to run MC as Admin.